Then don't bother to buy it!
Keep guessing.... And try to understand how and why the 9018 Q2C variant they are using differs from the original 9018, then you won't need to be making comments about the lack of output stage.....
Anyway, it wasn't directed at you. AFAIK, it is the only Sabre HAT that I am aware of, that has the 2 OSC's on board and can be run SYNC out-of-the-box..... Greg was saying he isn't keen on the Sabre ASRC, I thought.
1. There is nothing to buy. Why bother at all.
2. If you want to talk to Greg in private sent him a mail and don't bother us
3. My "guess" is based on experiences with several DAC implementations.
If you look at a board u usually know what's wrong with it.
The only one who had a look at the "tweakers cookbook", seems to be
MamboBerry.
4. I didn't know about the 9018 Q2C variant and its integrated power stage. Thx for the hint.
Though - in my opinion - the DAC chip itself plays not the most
important role. A poor power supply, a shitty filter, asf. asf., can kill easily the
overall performance potential of a DAC chip.
Perhaps the Mamboberry designer is watching us. A combination of that 9018DAC (chip and clocks) plus the MB peripheries plus I2S isolator might be a great future Mamboberry 2 solution.
Of course the Hifiberry folks could also use that Sabre 9018Q2C for a new generation of high performance DACs. The master clocking scheme they already have under control.
Obviously they'd have to improve the powering/decoupling layout as well.
As I said. Let see how things develop.
2. If you want to talk to Greg in private sent him a mail and don't bother us
3. My "guess" is based on experiences with several DAC implementations.
If you look at a board u usually know what's wrong with it.
The only one who had a look at the "tweakers cookbook", seems to be
MamboBerry.
4. I didn't know about the 9018 Q2C variant and its integrated power stage. Thx for the hint.
Though - in my opinion - the DAC chip itself plays not the most
important role. A poor power supply, a shitty filter, asf. asf., can kill easily the
overall performance potential of a DAC chip.
Perhaps the Mamboberry designer is watching us. A combination of that 9018DAC (chip and clocks) plus the MB peripheries plus I2S isolator might be a great future Mamboberry 2 solution.
Of course the Hifiberry folks could also use that Sabre 9018Q2C for a new generation of high performance DACs. The master clocking scheme they already have under control.
Obviously they'd have to improve the powering/decoupling layout as well.
As I said. Let see how things develop.
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That's it... The penny has dropped... That's why we are never going to agree on anything. You come to conclusions about audio by looking and guessing. I use my ears!
Anyway, apologies. If I have a comment for anyone else in the future, rather than beginning the sentence with their name in a public forum, I'll send them a PM. Thank you for the advice.
See. I never expected you to agree to anything. I appreciate your SW contributions and that's about it. I guess you're more of a SW guy.
Let me tell you something.
Guess what Greg did -- it seems you've missed that.
He ripped pretty much everything off the HifiBerry board without listening to it at all and followed his own "tweakers cookbook"! A lot more then I did!
Lookup the Soekris DAC thread ( and many many more). Not a single stone these guys havn't turned.
And again - you'll find great parts of the generic "tweakers cookbook" . Soekris made it half the way towards the tweakers by now. But even at Rev 3 these folks add capacity to the power rails. No, and they are not feeding AC, they are feeding DC. And no, they are not using his filters, and yes they a ripping off his opamps, ....
If you're around for a while you get a feeling what's wrong with a board. The biggest problem is if you let you fool by manufacturers measurements or specs.
Because then you're at the wrong place over here at DIYA.
99,99% of all tweaks you'll find over here at DIYA are trial and error tweaks.
People look at a board or device, analyze it and start swapping stuff. That's how it works.
Yep. And. As a matter of fact. Many times it is working.
I do have some equipment at home to check if there are major flaws in my system.
When it comes to finetuning my stuff, I have to use my ears as 99,99% of all inmates around. Still I have to look at a board first to see if it is worth it and to get started.
However. E.g. the MamboBerry is not giving me many ideas what do with it. Yep, there are exceptions.
Enjoy.
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My qualifications would say I am more of a hardware guy, but yes, most of my time now is spent writing software.
No I haven't missed that. Good luck to him! A very good learning experience, I am sure.. I could have told you, when this thread first started, not to waste your time trying to turn a pigs ear into a beautiful purse, but you wouldn't have listened!
Which is not to say that I think people should avoid buying that HiFiBerry board, only that you and Greg, and the target you are aiming for, makes you the wrong sort of customer.This is the wrong thread. But yes, I'm very familiar with the Soekris board. I have been experimenting too. I have five Soekris DAC's.
I do not think I am being fooled. If anyone is being fooled, it is someone buying a £30 Pi DAC HAT, and fooling themselves, thinking with a few tweaks, they will have the worlds best music streamer, or something equivalent to a Soekris DAC, which I agree is very much worth spending time "tweaking".
Have you compared the Audiophonics (OEM TeraDak, ISTR) with the Mambo? Audiophonics I-Sabre DAC ES9023 TCXO Raspberry Pi A+ B+ 2.0 / I2S (There are plenty of high-res images on their website, if you would like to critique it, without purchasing one.
)Please post publicly and ignore the stupidity, others are interested.That's it... The penny has dropped... That's why we are never going to agree on anything. You come to conclusions about audio by looking and guessing. I use my ears!
Anyway, apologies. If I have a comment for anyone else in the future, rather than beginning the sentence with their name in a public forum, I'll send them a PM. Thank you for the advice.
Yep. As a matter of fact I looked at the Audiophonics stuff more than once.
I even looked at the rather new Rev 3 of the Audiophonics Pi DAC which comes with a pic for power management.
My conclusion was:
They improved the layout compared to Rev 2. Which is nice.
But now the pic alone makes it a NoGo for me.
Some words about the HifiBerry DAC+ Pro.
Gregs and my DAC can't be called HifiBerry DAC anymore. That would be more than misleading.
Some serious tweaking was required to get in the range of the MamboBerry.
My overall conclusion therefore:
Mamboberry is IMO still the PI-DAC of choice.
Especially for those who prefer the Plug'n Play route.
And the sound quality potential of these DACs shouldn't be underestimated!
I find it funny to see that you dear Clive value a DAC by pricetag.
And me criticizing on my visual analysis of layout and parts used method.
That's really cheap!
No more comments on that.
I even looked at the rather new Rev 3 of the Audiophonics Pi DAC which comes with a pic for power management.
My conclusion was:
They improved the layout compared to Rev 2. Which is nice.
But now the pic alone makes it a NoGo for me.
Some words about the HifiBerry DAC+ Pro.
Gregs and my DAC can't be called HifiBerry DAC anymore. That would be more than misleading.
Some serious tweaking was required to get in the range of the MamboBerry.
My overall conclusion therefore:
Mamboberry is IMO still the PI-DAC of choice.
Especially for those who prefer the Plug'n Play route.
And the sound quality potential of these DACs shouldn't be underestimated!
I find it funny to see that you dear Clive value a DAC by pricetag.
And me criticizing on my visual analysis of layout and parts used method.
That's really cheap!
No more comments on that.
What are you talking about? Because I said that you cannot expect a 30 quid Pi DAC HAT to be a world beating music streamer, tweaked or not!
I have many less expensive audio "items", that are "better" IMHO than others which cost more. I consider by listening before I consider by price. Yes, value for money is a consideration, but you cannot determine the value of any audio component (to you as a potential owner) without listening to it.. Photographs and spec sheets can be a guide, and yes, if the layout is poor, then most likely the SQ will be poor, but I have already come across many things that defy explanation, and if I apply your logic, I would never have given them a chance to start with. On paper, the Pi should be immediately rejected as an audio platform. Sometimes the sum of the parts, is where the value is found. Throwing a bunch of boutique parts at a crappy design, is a waste of time. I expect we can all agree on that. But just occasionally, your pre-conceptions, (eg. deciding what something is going to sound like), by looking at photos, can lead you in the wrong direction. You looked at a picture of the Takazine DAC. I'm listening to one right now and modifying the software driver to expose more controls via the Alsa mixer. And go figure, why would I bother doing that when I have 5 Soekris DAC's to choose from?
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Where and when can you buy that Takazine DAC, at what price?
One more thing I forgot to mention earlier:
The new Audiphonics I-Sabre DAC Rev 3. is IMO getting much too expensive for what it offers. Since quite some time they are steeply stepping up the pricetags with every revision. Starting at 17€ for the 1st revsion of I2S DAC and now being at 76€. Nope.
I won't jump of that train.
One more thing I forgot to mention earlier:
The new Audiphonics I-Sabre DAC Rev 3. is IMO getting much too expensive for what it offers. Since quite some time they are steeply stepping up the pricetags with every revision. Starting at 17€ for the 1st revsion of I2S DAC and now being at 76€. Nope.
I won't jump of that train.
Soundcheck, let me get a definitive answer from Mr Nishiara. You are in the US, right? You'd need it to be shipped to the US?
I suspected the final retail pricing wouldn't be "cheap, cheap, cheap" if you extrapolate from the $60 price tag of their ES9023 board, SabreBerryPlus, and I suspect this has might have something to do with boards being produced in low volume in Japan (expensive) rather than China (cheap)..... Let me get definitive answers....
Fair enough. I feel the pricing of that MamboBerry is a little "steep" at 90 EURO. As much as I prefer any of the ES9023 solutions to any PCM512x, (it is no secret that I am not really a fan of that TI family of chips), But I am not inclined to buy yet another ES9023 board. Have too many already...... Which was why I was asking if you had compared it to Audiophonics.... Without any "tweaking", I would probably say that the Audiophonics (with TXCO) is the best sounding "out-of-the-box" ES9023 HAT...... I was asking you if you could give me a reason to want to buy the Mambo, in a non-obvious way.
As with a lot of people I have been trying this that and the other with the RPi and associated DACs. At the moment I am using the HifiBerry Digi+ feeding it from a linear psu which then feeds the 5volts to the RPi bypassing the USB input and the DC/DC converter.
However the same trick is not available from the HifiBerry DAC+ Pro although you can (as mentioned early in this thread) run the Analogue side of the DAC.
So - why is it not possible to run the Pi from the DAC? Is it that the DAC does not generate the needed voltages?
Any ideas?
However the same trick is not available from the HifiBerry DAC+ Pro although you can (as mentioned early in this thread) run the Analogue side of the DAC.
So - why is it not possible to run the Pi from the DAC? Is it that the DAC does not generate the needed voltages?
Any ideas?
It's almost the same as if you'd power the PI2 through the GPIO pins.
It's possible. However!!!
To quote ModMyPi:
Sounds dramatic.
Obviously the fuse and polarity check is no longer working if you go the GPIO route.
These are real risks.
The transient voltage protection might also not work (properly) anymore when having it at the far end (seen from GPIO).
Bottom line: One day you might get caught with your pants down.
The required voltages will be generated as usual. There's no issue with that.
It's possible. However!!!
To quote ModMyPi:
Sounds dramatic.
Obviously the fuse and polarity check is no longer working if you go the GPIO route.
These are real risks.
The transient voltage protection might also not work (properly) anymore when having it at the far end (seen from GPIO).
Bottom line: One day you might get caught with your pants down.
The required voltages will be generated as usual. There's no issue with that.
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Yep. It is always the same if you power the PI via GPIO.
It would also apply to the Digi+
There are DAC manufactures like e.g the MamboBerry or the AudioPhonics,
which use their own supply rails to power the PI through GPIO by default.
I don't know if these DACs are introducing their own RPI rail protection!?!? Would be interesting to see how they do it.
It would also apply to the Digi+
There are DAC manufactures like e.g the MamboBerry or the AudioPhonics,
which use their own supply rails to power the PI through GPIO by default.
I don't know if these DACs are introducing their own RPI rail protection!?!? Would be interesting to see how they do it.
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So, would there be a difference between powering the Pi (through GPIO) and Dac+ Pro separately (using two power sources) versus powering both through the Dac+ Pro, using only one power source?
Thanks.
NO. It's the same.
What you can do - to be on the safe side:
1. Powering the PI through micro-USB.
2. Powering the HifiBerry board separately by removing the 0R resistor.
But remember:
Both supplies must be of very good quality !
The PI supply still delivers 3.3V for the digital part of the DAC and the clocks.
I guess most of us over here would agree that the current supply rail design is kind of questionable.
A 2nd 3.3V regulator for the digital part would have been the much better solution instead of using the PI 3.3V.
What you can do - to be on the safe side:
1. Powering the PI through micro-USB.
2. Powering the HifiBerry board separately by removing the 0R resistor.
But remember:
Both supplies must be of very good quality !
The PI supply still delivers 3.3V for the digital part of the DAC and the clocks.
I guess most of us over here would agree that the current supply rail design is kind of questionable.
A 2nd 3.3V regulator for the digital part would have been the much better solution instead of using the PI 3.3V.
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