AGs are somewhat like Black Gates, will offer you a cleaner sound and a very good balanced timbre, in audiophile therms a blacker background and absence of grain.
But AGs are the last upgrade to do, the Vishay/BC in BOM sound fantastic and will allow you to enjoy all the other upgrades.
I'm using those Vishay/BCs just now while re-testing all the upgrades and the amp sound wonderfull.
After mounting the Z-Foils in R12, R7 and R10, though I can't continue tests...the amp is running from this morning at a very high volume and I can't stop listening...
Can't figure out what I will do when AGs will be in place...
Never tried them but I suggest you to stick to the BOM first.
I have never used the words "Mundorf" and "ruin" in the same sentence. In fact, I wrote more than once that the Mundorf is a decent, adequate cap. How is that false or misleading?
If you claim it's the best available because of your wire jumper comparison, then you are misleading people. I believe there are better caps because I've heard them. They cost more money. Not everyone will care or agree, so I'm not going to argue about it.
Peace,
Tom E
You're right, never in the same sentence... but how should I interpret those two paragraphs?
Requoting a single part:
A Mundorf Supreme is not barely adequate and before spending more money on C13 other parts should be upgraded first, in fact Z-foils in R12 and R7 gives a way much higher jump in quality than going from CDE940 to Supreme or even plain wire.
Never said that there are no better caps, what I've said is that, compared to plain wire as a reference, the Supreme is good enough and with not much to be missed from the reference.
I'm sure you've heard better sound from other caps, you know how much I respect your listening abilities, but until you don't compare them to an objective reference you have no way to discern from 'better sound from coloration' and 'better sound from transparency'.
A transparent part could also sound not that good, considering the whole setup, but that could simply mean that something in the rest of the chain has to be revised.
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Mundorf AG Vs Vishay/BC PMG-SI (Preliminary)
(PRELIMINARY) It seems confirmed that Mundorf AGs are a worthwhile improvement over Vishay/BC PMG-SIs.
Vishay/BC PMG-SI is an excellent base cap, though, and not a problem at all.
What you can expect:
Is it worth it?
IMHO, absolutely yes but it depends on you budget and there are more important upgrades that comes before.
(PRELIMINARY) It seems confirmed that Mundorf AGs are a worthwhile improvement over Vishay/BC PMG-SIs.
Vishay/BC PMG-SI is an excellent base cap, though, and not a problem at all.
What you can expect:
- Blacker background and more contrast/focus
- An higher harmonic content
- Cleaner sound
- Fuller and deeper bass
Is it worth it?
IMHO, absolutely yes but it depends on you budget and there are more important upgrades that comes before.
I have Mundorf Supreme at C13 and AG's as power supply caps on my 2nd build. No complaints here but i also upgraded other components too such as a naked foil at R10 and a BG at C9 so i am not sure what difference the individual upgrades made but as a whole the improvement is well worthwhile over the basic BOM. It makes an already excellent amplifier even better. I'll maybe fit more naked foils at a later date but at present I'm enjoying my FE's so much that i don't want to disturb them.
I fitted a decent quality source selector to my DCB1 along with alterations to the signal wiring layout, it now sounds stunning with the FE's and is absolutely silent even with the pot turned right up and my ear pressed to the drivers. (source on but paused, obviously).
Having no mains noise issues at my new home helps too
I fitted a decent quality source selector to my DCB1 along with alterations to the signal wiring layout, it now sounds stunning with the FE's and is absolutely silent even with the pot turned right up and my ear pressed to the drivers. (source on but paused, obviously
). Having no mains noise issues at my new home helps too
I have tried it on an early generation FE. I maybe an out of the norm here. Tony Gee at HumbleHomemadeHiFi likes it in his applications. I thought it wasn't very neutral with a somewhat strained sounding mid -hi. I even went back and tried them again last fall when I had some new caps to try (CDE940C, 942C), plus looking again at some old caps I have. Once again, I didn't care for it.
Of the ones tested on this iteration of FE, I personally would prefer the 940C and the Supreme over the Jantzen Superior. Especially, since there is only about $4 difference in price between the Jantzen and the Supreme, I would go for the Supreme.
Of course, if you are like me and just have to experiment, there are lots of interesting choices. For example, a Sonicap Gen 1 (1 uF) parallel to a 1 nF polypropelene or polystyrene gives a mellow, smooth sound, less colored than the Gen 1 alone. The CDE 942C give a punchy sound. Or relatively crazy expensive (3x the normal Supreme), the Mundorf Supreme Silver Oil is detailed with a sparkle on top. In the end, the BOM caps are excellent choices. Pick your price and pick your poison.
Jac
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I have tested those Jantzens, thanks to Marino (factory2nd).
In my tube pre, in place of the Mundorf Supreme silver -gold.
The mundorfs are better. But but, I liked the sound of the Jantzen, full and quite a good balance. In line with, read not better, than AUdyn cap plus or Obbligato gold +.
Ciao, George
In my tube pre, in place of the Mundorf Supreme silver -gold.
The mundorfs are better. But but, I liked the sound of the Jantzen, full and quite a good balance. In line with, read not better, than AUdyn cap plus or Obbligato gold +.
Ciao, George
I did, and plugged them in also five minutes ago... my bad feelings about them didn't change.
I find them grainy and unbalanced with highligtht on hifreqs.
The 940C in BOM sounds better, more balanced, clean and detailed, IMHO.
Hi George,
I can see how they would be a good fit for a tube pre. You bring up a couple of other alternatives. In my experience, the Audyn Plus has a nice soundstage, but is a little bright. I don't have any experience with the Gold +.
Jac
Preliminary upgrade results disclaimer
just to remember that preliminary results should not lead partecipants to buy upgrade parts until confirmed.
I will confirm results in a few days but it's possible that some upgrades, after some days of listening, will be changed in their priority or even withdrawn.
just to remember that preliminary results should not lead partecipants to buy upgrade parts until confirmed.
I will confirm results in a few days but it's possible that some upgrades, after some days of listening, will be changed in their priority or even withdrawn.
Hey, I see the link to the 9th version booking but can't find any specific info.
Hi Bob,
I hoped that it would have been clear... from spredsheet's header:
"This is the booking spreadsheet for the upcoming 9th My_Ref Fremen Edition Group Buy
The group buy will start later this summer (July or September) unless 10 kits are reached, in that case GB will start immediatlely after."
But, clearly, it's not
At the moment there's no Group Buy active, later this summer I'll open a 9th one, in the meanwhile people willing to partecipate can book in that spreadsheet.
If 10 kits are reached before the planned start the 9th GB will officially start earlier, anyway.
Hope it's clearer now, if not feel free to ask
If, instead, you were asking what will be offered in the GB:
Same boards as 8th GB, with some small fixes.
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Thanks Dario, no wonder I couldn't find it.
I just signed up for two sets as my monoblocks are Rev 1.0 Beta 1 2012 (blue boards), and the mini box build that I shipped around has Rev 1 (green boards) also 2012.
I'm not sure how much improvement will come with the layout of the newer boards, but I'm sure there are some "latest and greatest" BOM selections I need to investigate.
Looking forward to more information when it's available........
I just signed up for two sets as my monoblocks are Rev 1.0 Beta 1 2012 (blue boards), and the mini box build that I shipped around has Rev 1 (green boards) also 2012.
I'm not sure how much improvement will come with the layout of the newer boards, but I'm sure there are some "latest and greatest"
BOM selections I need to investigate.Looking forward to more information when it's available........
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Ah! You wanted an abstract!
No problem.
Rev. 1.5 boards introduced some important changes:
Mouser BOM is a tiny bit laid back, timbre with upgrade to Z-Foils will be perfectly transparent and further detail is gained.
Older boards can be easily upgraded to almost the same level (apart distortion) using the updated BOM for pre v1.5 boards:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FQt1X_sSkawH3p5xfFzCF9SRIuRX70ySS9C9x0R0sRU/edit#gid=0
No problem.
Rev. 1.5 boards introduced some important changes:
- Thanks to an improved layout noise radiated from PS is greatly reduced so distortion is reduced from (circa) 0.001% to 0.0001%
- No more carbon films (well... apart R2)
- Only one Caddock left (R3)
- Mouser BOM costs less and sounds better
- More options for through hole resistors, Z-foils pads
- Smoothing caps are now PMG-SI from Vishay/BC, much more balanced than old Panny TS-HA
Mouser BOM is a tiny bit laid back, timbre with upgrade to Z-Foils will be perfectly transparent and further detail is gained.
Older boards can be easily upgraded to almost the same level (apart distortion) using the updated BOM for pre v1.5 boards:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FQt1X_sSkawH3p5xfFzCF9SRIuRX70ySS9C9x0R0sRU/edit#gid=0
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Sounds very encouraging....though I really like what I have, the only gripe I've heard about the LM3886 in general is a little edge on top. If it's there, I like it as I listen to a lot of big band and classical stuff with bunches of brass.
"a tiny bit laid back" sounds like a good thing and probably will not be noticed/missed when combined with the other improvements you list. As was so often the case going way back to the beginning, some of the best improvements have been characterized by what they remove from the sound - not what was added.
For me, a GB ~ late summer is fine and might allow more folks to sign up. Whatever you decide.......
"a tiny bit laid back" sounds like a good thing and probably will not be noticed/missed when combined with the other improvements you list. As was so often the case going way back to the beginning, some of the best improvements have been characterized by what they remove from the sound - not what was added.
For me, a GB ~ late summer is fine and might allow more folks to sign up. Whatever you decide.......
So far off topic.
I have this picture in my mind of Bob sitting there, soldering iron in hand, poised over his workbench, saying over and over in a low tone, "I'm ready, I'm ready,.....
I know that feeling. It's good.
For those of you who don't know Bob, he was one of the early adopters and tried a lot of different possibilities in the beginning of the FE. Plus, he is a really nice guy and I am happy he is back.
Jac
PS
Hey Bob, can I interest you in a vacuum tube phono pre-amp project? Just kidding.
I have this picture in my mind of Bob sitting there, soldering iron in hand, poised over his workbench, saying over and over in a low tone, "I'm ready, I'm ready,.....
I know that feeling. It's good.
For those of you who don't know Bob, he was one of the early adopters and tried a lot of different possibilities in the beginning of the FE. Plus, he is a really nice guy and I am happy he is back.
Jac
PS
Hey Bob, can I interest you in a vacuum tube phono pre-amp project? Just kidding.
Bob, it's even better
My goal for this BOM was to achieve the minimum loss possible so to let pass as much signal as possible in the most balanced way.
With parts available from Mouser is possible but not completely, the result is remarkablke, IMHO, but the utterly transparence of bulk metal foils complete the frame.
Even if it would start tomorrow it would not end until mid/end of July, there is time...