LOA
Tonight I bought a LOA worklight. Man is it white. I did a test by taking a peice of clear plastic and making a series of different sized screens all over it to represent popular lcd sizes, and I made a project box using a lens I got from an overhead head assembly. It projected bright enough without a fresnel to iluminate all the way up to a 10" screen (not using a real LCD panel), but with even dim lights on it was pretty faded. I think that I can condense the light with a fresnel to about an 8" panel and it should be ok. Lines were perfectly straight with my overhead lens though.
Tonight I bought a LOA worklight. Man is it white. I did a test by taking a peice of clear plastic and making a series of different sized screens all over it to represent popular lcd sizes, and I made a project box using a lens I got from an overhead head assembly. It projected bright enough without a fresnel to iluminate all the way up to a 10" screen (not using a real LCD panel), but with even dim lights on it was pretty faded. I think that I can condense the light with a fresnel to about an 8" panel and it should be ok. Lines were perfectly straight with my overhead lens though.
here you go type-e a single deltaIV http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1319074746.even has the adjusting screw for focus.open till Jan 13
fender4
I don't think that will work. The Delta lens that I use is made for a 5" CRT. The LCD is almost touching the back of the Delta assembly. You would need to find a Delta with enough diameter to match your LCD because the focal length is so short.
Here is a rough example of what mine looks like.
xx---------------xxx
x---xxxx--xx---x-----x
x------x--xx---x-----x
x---xxxx--xx---x-----x
xx---------------xxx
Delta-LCD-LOA
I don't think that will work. The Delta lens that I use is made for a 5" CRT. The LCD is almost touching the back of the Delta assembly. You would need to find a Delta with enough diameter to match your LCD because the focal length is so short.
Here is a rough example of what mine looks like.
xx---------------xxx
x---xxxx--xx---x-----x
x------x--xx---x-----x
x---xxxx--xx---x-----x
xx---------------xxx
Delta-LCD-LOA
pläh..
the bulb from my properly working ohp blew up yesterday, then I took the fresnel to the other ohp I got but the cooling isn't working properly. I hope it didn't destroy the fresnel.
I tried to play around with my diy thing but I couldn't get it work so good. The 500w halogen isn't as powerful as the ohp:s have, I actually put the 500w worklight in to the ohp which from the bulb got destroyed, and as I said it's not as powerful.
Anyway about the page magnifier, one costs like $3 as new ohp fresnel costs like $80-160 around here where I live so I think they have some difference.
I've been bit disapointed that I'm not getting any answers to my questions here in this forum (well most of them, thank you for the ones that have been answered though).
I have one again, hope somebody is going to bother to answer:
What is the difference between American lights fluorex light and a fluorex light made by someone else, osram fluorex offered by farnell for example? Okay I admit this is a question no one probably will have an answer to but anyway.. Another one:
What does IR mean and what (harm) does it do? I understand it could do something bad to my eyes or possibly maybe even my dick but how does it differ that I light my wall with the worklight when I do some painting work from projecting an image from lcd to the wall and watching that?
Anyway, try to keep up the good work everyone, it seems bit slow around here right now.. Somebody did tell though that he finished his projector but didn't even bother to tell it here but started a new thread for some reason weird and unknown...
the bulb from my properly working ohp blew up yesterday, then I took the fresnel to the other ohp I got but the cooling isn't working properly. I hope it didn't destroy the fresnel.
I tried to play around with my diy thing but I couldn't get it work so good. The 500w halogen isn't as powerful as the ohp:s have, I actually put the 500w worklight in to the ohp which from the bulb got destroyed, and as I said it's not as powerful.
Anyway about the page magnifier, one costs like $3 as new ohp fresnel costs like $80-160 around here where I live so I think they have some difference.
I've been bit disapointed that I'm not getting any answers to my questions here in this forum (well most of them, thank you for the ones that have been answered though).
I have one again, hope somebody is going to bother to answer:
What is the difference between American lights fluorex light and a fluorex light made by someone else, osram fluorex offered by farnell for example? Okay I admit this is a question no one probably will have an answer to but anyway.. Another one:
What does IR mean and what (harm) does it do? I understand it could do something bad to my eyes or possibly maybe even my dick but how does it differ that I light my wall with the worklight when I do some painting work from projecting an image from lcd to the wall and watching that?
Anyway, try to keep up the good work everyone, it seems bit slow around here right now.. Somebody did tell though that he finished his projector but didn't even bother to tell it here but started a new thread for some reason weird and unknown...
PTremb said:
yeah.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005QEIV/ref=ase_babywishes/103-1835646-3066251
What are these? are these projectors too hot to be in a DIY projector?
HELLO ALL
Hey everyone, I just stumbled across this forum last night, foud this thread and stayed awake until 5:30am trying to read it all, well I only got to page 14 and i had to continue reading, I just finished it today and all I can say is good on you all for trying.
I live in Brisbane, Queensland, Australia. I have been intrested in audio and home theatre for many years, thats how i found this forum, I actually have a data projector myself a EPSON EMP-3000 it is a few yars old projector but its a DATA becuse it can receive VGA input (640x480) and normal video input (RCS and S-Video) and it can receive all formats (PAL, NTSC and so on) it has 300 ANSI lumens of output which is ok if the room is dark (it dosent have to be pitch black) what I have done is pulled it apart to see how it all works, what I dont have is a digital camera or webspace, I will try to borrow one from work.
I think 10,000 lumens output is overkill, even the newest top of the range projectors are arond 4000 ANSI lumens, and that is enough to see the picture well in a lit room. Also with 10,000 lumens you are going to be facing some major heat issues.
I like the idea of the white LED's I cant wait until they start putting out some serious light. 100 lumens will be great, I think when they get to 30 I will seriously consider them as I will only need 66 to get an output of 2000 lumens.
here are a few sites to see what current projectors stats are at (the top range ones)
http://www.epson.com.sg/html/body_emp8100_-_epson_emp-8100.html
this one has a resolution of 1600x1200 and 3200 ANSI lumens all I can say is Damn, that would be nice, if i could find a small, say, 6 inces max screen with a resolution of 1600x1200 for a resonable price i would be seriously happy, I mean theres got to be a company making them, I'm sure that all these companies that make the lcd projectors dont make their pannels "in house" and are made by an outside comany(s).
http://www.epson.com.au/products/home_and_office/emp7700.html
this one is interesting, heres a bit I copied out of it
"The EMP-7700 is a 3000 ANSI lumens XGA projector, with a noise level of only 38db. A new 200W UHE lamp and a high aperture panel ("Dream Panel") increases the brightness."
the bit i find interesting is the "Dream Panel" and I wonder what it is, possibly it is a improved type of fresnel lens which wastes no light and distributes the light really evenly.
Best of luck with this project to you all, I hope it works out for everyone, I think once we lay down a set of guidelines it alot more people may undertake it.
PS, I would really like to see a photo of a working example, mostly, i would like to see light shining through the LCD panel.
Thanks.
Hey everyone, I just stumbled across this forum last night, foud this thread and stayed awake until 5:30am trying to read it all, well I only got to page 14 and i had to continue reading, I just finished it today and all I can say is good on you all for trying.
I live in Brisbane, Queensland, Australia. I have been intrested in audio and home theatre for many years, thats how i found this forum, I actually have a data projector myself a EPSON EMP-3000 it is a few yars old projector but its a DATA becuse it can receive VGA input (640x480) and normal video input (RCS and S-Video) and it can receive all formats (PAL, NTSC and so on) it has 300 ANSI lumens of output which is ok if the room is dark (it dosent have to be pitch black) what I have done is pulled it apart to see how it all works, what I dont have is a digital camera or webspace, I will try to borrow one from work.
I think 10,000 lumens output is overkill, even the newest top of the range projectors are arond 4000 ANSI lumens, and that is enough to see the picture well in a lit room. Also with 10,000 lumens you are going to be facing some major heat issues.
I like the idea of the white LED's I cant wait until they start putting out some serious light. 100 lumens will be great, I think when they get to 30 I will seriously consider them as I will only need 66 to get an output of 2000 lumens.
here are a few sites to see what current projectors stats are at (the top range ones)
http://www.epson.com.sg/html/body_emp8100_-_epson_emp-8100.html
this one has a resolution of 1600x1200 and 3200 ANSI lumens all I can say is Damn, that would be nice, if i could find a small, say, 6 inces max screen with a resolution of 1600x1200 for a resonable price i would be seriously happy, I mean theres got to be a company making them, I'm sure that all these companies that make the lcd projectors dont make their pannels "in house" and are made by an outside comany(s).
http://www.epson.com.au/products/home_and_office/emp7700.html
this one is interesting, heres a bit I copied out of it
"The EMP-7700 is a 3000 ANSI lumens XGA projector, with a noise level of only 38db. A new 200W UHE lamp and a high aperture panel ("Dream Panel") increases the brightness."
the bit i find interesting is the "Dream Panel" and I wonder what it is, possibly it is a improved type of fresnel lens which wastes no light and distributes the light really evenly.
Best of luck with this project to you all, I hope it works out for everyone, I think once we lay down a set of guidelines it alot more people may undertake it.
PS, I would really like to see a photo of a working example, mostly, i would like to see light shining through the LCD panel.
Thanks.
>>>I think 10,000 lumens output is overkill, even the newest top of the range projectors are arond 4000 ANSI lumens, and that is enough to see the picture well in a lit room.
Yeah, maybe, but that's the brightness of the image on the wall. The LCD panel eats A LOT of the light going through it. This is obvious when you think about it:
How often in a movie etc do you see plain white? That bit in the Matrix in the loading program perhaps... but mostly the colours you see on screen are darker, and nearer total black. The LCD tries to black out the screen totally for an image of the night sky for example, so the brightness of the lamp is _almost_ totally blocked by the panel... Then that image is magnified, losing more brightness...
10,000 lumens is the brightness of the lamp needed to give an overall brightness of around 1000lumens at the final image.
Graham
Yeah, maybe, but that's the brightness of the image on the wall. The LCD panel eats A LOT of the light going through it. This is obvious when you think about it:
How often in a movie etc do you see plain white? That bit in the Matrix in the loading program perhaps... but mostly the colours you see on screen are darker, and nearer total black. The LCD tries to black out the screen totally for an image of the night sky for example, so the brightness of the lamp is _almost_ totally blocked by the panel... Then that image is magnified, losing more brightness...
10,000 lumens is the brightness of the lamp needed to give an overall brightness of around 1000lumens at the final image.
Graham
do we know what percentage is lost? can anyone measure it or do a test eg. look at the wall with the LCD showing just white/clear and then take the LCD away and have a guestimate of how much brighter it is? I know that 4-5% of light is lost through a fresnel lens so there is some lost, we could end up having a chart that would tell us that we would need a certain amount of Bulb lumens to get a certain amount of ANSI lumens at the output of the projector.
I took my projector apart and it is quite amazing, the original light source from the bulb is broken up into three using two mirrors that let certain light waves through, the frirst mirror lets red pass through and reflects blue and yellow at a 45 degree angle, then there is another mirror that only lets blue through and reflects the green at 45 degrees, And then guess what.... all three colours have their own LCD that is about 1inch by 1inch then after that they all meet again and are put back together by, well i suppose you could call it a beam splitter reverser. Then the image goes throught the lenses and then onto the wall.
By the way this projector dosent have any fresnel lenses it has a lens infront of each LCD wich would work exactly like a fresnel lens, it has two wieird lenses which I would need to take a picture of for you to understand (they look as if they work as diffusers, there is one directly after the light and one after the 45 degree bend that is after the light.), and I dont know how many lenses are in the Zoom/focus part of the projector.
Time for sleep, its 12:09
I took my projector apart and it is quite amazing, the original light source from the bulb is broken up into three using two mirrors that let certain light waves through, the frirst mirror lets red pass through and reflects blue and yellow at a 45 degree angle, then there is another mirror that only lets blue through and reflects the green at 45 degrees, And then guess what.... all three colours have their own LCD that is about 1inch by 1inch then after that they all meet again and are put back together by, well i suppose you could call it a beam splitter reverser. Then the image goes throught the lenses and then onto the wall.
By the way this projector dosent have any fresnel lenses it has a lens infront of each LCD wich would work exactly like a fresnel lens, it has two wieird lenses which I would need to take a picture of for you to understand (they look as if they work as diffusers, there is one directly after the light and one after the 45 degree bend that is after the light.), and I dont know how many lenses are in the Zoom/focus part of the projector.
Time for sleep, its 12:09
Hello,
Today I tried "regular" projector setup, similiar to the one dwalls has on his page, without the mirror though. Projection lens ripped off from ohp (as well the light source, I ripped the ohp:s apart). First I couldn't get it focused at all but after some testing I realized it needs quite much distance from the panel (probably because it is an ohp lens). Okay then I started to struggle with the light. Bit hard cause this fresnel doesn't seem to be working anymore either, however when I got it positioned right enough I could get an "ok" picture. At one point, I had very ok and bright(enough) picture, but for very short period of time because I had hard time mounting it in since it has to be in very precise position to work/spread properly. If I attach it to the lcd it doesn't work at all, although this is about the position of the light.
Anyway, I don't know where to go from here. Playing with cardboxes isn't getting me anywhere since the mountings are not very secure, if can mount at all. But I don't think my diy thing is going to be this model anyway, I prefer the ohp setup. Since the thing is going to be big anyhow, I'm thinking just a big (about 1,5 meters high) metal box which is basicly ohp but it is more enclosured and it tries to look like a furniture more than ohp.
It has some cooling fans in it and "service" door from where you go in and change the light source to whatever you like. I prefer this furniture model more than ugly big box somewhere in the table or not really anywhere it would fit or mounted in the roof just waiting to fall off (and is ugly as hell in there as well since it is still big).
The ohp fresnel btw. is made from two pieces but I don't think putting two page magnifiers next to each other will drive the same thing. Can't be sure though
blah.. I haven't got any answers to my questions, not a suprise though at this point.. It actually feels more or less like I'm talking(writing) this stuff to my self right now...
Oh I forgot that the today's test was really about finding out if the mirror in the ohp does cause light loss (I've asked about that too) but I didn't really get the answer from my tests (or question).. Anyway I'm guessing that it doesn't (at least dramatically).
Okya..
Today I tried "regular" projector setup, similiar to the one dwalls has on his page, without the mirror though. Projection lens ripped off from ohp (as well the light source, I ripped the ohp:s apart). First I couldn't get it focused at all but after some testing I realized it needs quite much distance from the panel (probably because it is an ohp lens). Okay then I started to struggle with the light. Bit hard cause this fresnel doesn't seem to be working anymore either, however when I got it positioned right enough I could get an "ok" picture. At one point, I had very ok and bright(enough) picture, but for very short period of time because I had hard time mounting it in since it has to be in very precise position to work/spread properly. If I attach it to the lcd it doesn't work at all, although this is about the position of the light.
Anyway, I don't know where to go from here. Playing with cardboxes isn't getting me anywhere since the mountings are not very secure, if can mount at all. But I don't think my diy thing is going to be this model anyway, I prefer the ohp setup. Since the thing is going to be big anyhow, I'm thinking just a big (about 1,5 meters high) metal box which is basicly ohp but it is more enclosured and it tries to look like a furniture more than ohp.
It has some cooling fans in it and "service" door from where you go in and change the light source to whatever you like. I prefer this furniture model more than ugly big box somewhere in the table or not really anywhere it would fit or mounted in the roof just waiting to fall off (and is ugly as hell in there as well since it is still big).
The ohp fresnel btw. is made from two pieces but I don't think putting two page magnifiers next to each other will drive the same thing. Can't be sure though
blah.. I haven't got any answers to my questions, not a suprise though at this point.. It actually feels more or less like I'm talking(writing) this stuff to my self right now...
Oh I forgot that the today's test was really about finding out if the mirror in the ohp does cause light loss (I've asked about that too) but I didn't really get the answer from my tests (or question).. Anyway I'm guessing that it doesn't (at least dramatically).
Okya..
Long time no see
Hello everyone,
I've somehow stopped getting emails from the forum telling me it's been updated, so I thought you were all being very quiet until now. I can offer some advice on some subjects here...
Bitch
I was also looking at the farnell site and looked at all the Osram lights, but none claim to have as high an output as the LOA one. Also, the colour temperature is only a max of 4000K as far as I could see.
I'm in the UK and can't find any source of these magical lights, I even tried mailing LOA but they didn't bother their **** to reply.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, IR is infra-red, which is pretty much the heat part of the beam. If you could stop IR but transmit everything else, things would be great. But it's not easy to do that - that's what cold mirrors and the like attempt to do.
Right, I mentioned a while back using a PC power supply as a power source for an experiment. Just in case anyone was wondering, the power supply can happily supply 12V@7A, which was plenty for my 75W I wanted. If anyone is after doing this in future, remember to disconnect your computer from the internal power supply before using said power supply in your project. And putting a small load on the 5V output will give a better output on the 12V. The 5V is high current btw. Any more questions on using the PC as a power supply mail chriscoull@blueyonder.co.uk should the need arise for a really speedy reply.
I have built a small prototype with a 2" LCD and a nasty Halogen bulb. I am going to see how it works once glue is dry, but my digital camera is in Edinburgh so watch this space for light shining through an LCD, Andrew.
Keep up the good work, and if anyone knows about Fluorex or other lights in the UK, please get in touch!!!
Cheers,
Chris.
Hello everyone,
I've somehow stopped getting emails from the forum telling me it's been updated, so I thought you were all being very quiet until now. I can offer some advice on some subjects here...
Bitch
I was also looking at the farnell site and looked at all the Osram lights, but none claim to have as high an output as the LOA one. Also, the colour temperature is only a max of 4000K as far as I could see.
I'm in the UK and can't find any source of these magical lights, I even tried mailing LOA but they didn't bother their **** to reply.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, IR is infra-red, which is pretty much the heat part of the beam. If you could stop IR but transmit everything else, things would be great. But it's not easy to do that - that's what cold mirrors and the like attempt to do.
Right, I mentioned a while back using a PC power supply as a power source for an experiment. Just in case anyone was wondering, the power supply can happily supply 12V@7A, which was plenty for my 75W I wanted. If anyone is after doing this in future, remember to disconnect your computer from the internal power supply before using said power supply in your project. And putting a small load on the 5V output will give a better output on the 12V. The 5V is high current btw. Any more questions on using the PC as a power supply mail chriscoull@blueyonder.co.uk should the need arise
for a really speedy reply.I have built a small prototype with a 2" LCD and a nasty Halogen bulb. I am going to see how it works once glue is dry, but my digital camera is in Edinburgh so watch this space for light shining through an LCD, Andrew.
Keep up the good work, and if anyone knows about Fluorex or other lights in the UK, please get in touch!!!
Cheers,
Chris.
So ir is just about the heat, it doesn't do hurt to your eyes or anything like that? Okay.. I just didn't know but that's why I asked..
About the brightness with LCD and not LCD the difference is very great. You can see the difference when the lcd is not on at all, or at least my lcd has cool logo thing in it when it's not plugged to videosource which has white background so it's good for testing focus and lightspread. I have told before that the lcd passes through 5-10% of the light, I'm not 100% sure about the accuracy for that because right now I can't even remember where I read it from. Personally I would actually say it passes more than 10% but not much though.
About the brightness with LCD and not LCD the difference is very great. You can see the difference when the lcd is not on at all, or at least my lcd has cool logo thing in it when it's not plugged to videosource which has white background so it's good for testing focus and lightspread. I have told before that the lcd passes through 5-10% of the light, I'm not 100% sure about the accuracy for that because right now I can't even remember where I read it from. Personally I would actually say it passes more than 10% but not much though.
10% would definitely make sense... This talk of 10,000 lumens bulbs giving 1000 lumens projectors definitely ties in maths wise!
Using this rough logic, the Lights of America jobbie should give a fairly health 600lumens projector... Has anyone experimented with overloading(?) these for more light? Perhaps 2 of them in a parabolic/mirrored case + fresnel would give 1200lumens then?
Thats something to look forward to!
Graham
Using this rough logic, the Lights of America jobbie should give a fairly health 600lumens projector... Has anyone experimented with overloading(?) these for more light? Perhaps 2 of them in a parabolic/mirrored case + fresnel would give 1200lumens then?
Thats something to look forward to!
Graham
fresnel lens
Now lots of people think fresnel lenses are the way to go but this is not always the case! In my lcd projector For a while i used a fresnel then went to no lens then to a glass type squar lens one that fits in the frame i built for lenses to go in and stay in frount of the globe its a justable this lens incresed the brightness so much that you can not look in to the lens of the projector it hurts your eyes! if i find out what this lens is called i will post it heer but all i think it is is a squar glass thick magnifier for those with small fresnel lenses try your projector with out it then put it back did it make any difference then witch side was facing the globe.
ohh and for the lens at the front of the projector im using a propper lcd projector lens but you could use one out of a slide projector.
Also a nother note on making things brighter is the reflector!
Play around with different relective things mirror reflects well but if you gett propper reflectors from a slide projector or some thing it works bette.
Infered heat
To aviod this problem I made a little holder for my lcd pannle and stuck a infered heat lens the size of the screen to it and the pannle dousent even get walm.
My projector has 3 fans and one in let hole all the fans use to be blowing in side the box but if all the fans suck the air out of the box it gives much better cooling.
Well theres some stuff to look at Good luck
and when the page with my projector comes on the net ill post the link here
From Jordan
Now lots of people think fresnel lenses are the way to go but this is not always the case! In my lcd projector For a while i used a fresnel then went to no lens then to a glass type squar lens one that fits in the frame i built for lenses to go in and stay in frount of the globe its a justable this lens incresed the brightness so much that you can not look in to the lens of the projector it hurts your eyes! if i find out what this lens is called i will post it heer but all i think it is is a squar glass thick magnifier
for those with small fresnel lenses try your projector with out it then put it back did it make any difference then witch side was facing the globe.ohh and for the lens at the front of the projector im using a propper lcd projector lens but you could use one out of a slide projector.
Also a nother note on making things brighter is the reflector!
Play around with different relective things mirror reflects well but if you gett propper reflectors from a slide projector or some thing it works bette.
Infered heat
To aviod this problem I made a little holder for my lcd pannle and stuck a infered heat lens the size of the screen to it and the pannle dousent even get walm.
My projector has 3 fans and one in let hole all the fans use to be blowing in side the box but if all the fans suck the air out of the box it gives much better cooling.
Well theres some stuff to look at Good luck
and when the page with my projector comes on the net ill post the link here
From Jordan
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